Comments on: This Week’s Discussion ~ Gender possessives and pronouns

By: merylrunion

merylrunion — Sun, 22 Mar 2009 16:57:43 +0000

Ron, my desire for gender neutral language is not about political correctness. It’s more about clarity – and as a writer, artistic flair. I prefer not to have to designate gender when it’s not relevant, emphasize gender when it is, and I’d like to be able to disguise gender without sounding convoluted until I choose to reveal it for effect.I find the current options very limiting. So when I’m really famous, I just might take up the cause again.

By: Ron Pulliam

Ron Pulliam — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:31:42 +0000

I’m afraid we’ve gone a little overboard in the political correctness when it comes to the English language.

First, I abhor the use of “their” when referring to singular entities. It’s grammatically incorrect, and it feeds into the “but it’s commonly used that way” argument. The broadcast media have long ago given up any rights to thinking of themselves as defenders or arbiters of the English language, so I’m afraid it’s up to us common folk.

I have no problem with saying, “If someone would like to challenge this idea, he is free to speak up now.” That, or “he or she” giving a mixed audience the choice. “He” has represented BOTH genders for many, many years. If I can explore my feminine side, why can’t we leave well enough alone?

By: merylrunion

merylrunion — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:42:47 +0000

Yes, yes. The black /white, either / or mindset puts us in boxes when there really is a continuum.

I do find using the descriptor too often is awkward, however.

Thanks for your input!

By: Rachel

Rachel — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:37:12 +0000

I avoid the pronoun awkwardness by using a title or descriptor instead of the pronoun, especially in business writing, but also in my personal communications. Isn’t it easier to use “the baby”, “the student”, “the employee” than s/he? Using the descriptor lets the subject be the subject, without introducing the gender-weighted pronoun.

Which leads me to another important topic: There is a lot of talk amongst the feminist community about negative impacts of the “gender binary”. Why do we insist there are two genders? Aren’t we all just people? Why do we tend to divide groups into two? Liberal/Conservative, Man/Woman, Smart/Stupid…

This is a great topic!

By: merylrunion

merylrunion — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:37:28 +0000

I was wondering what pronouns were tried earlier on.

I think this is more of a concern for authors than for many other people. It really isn’t a equal rights kind of issue or question for me – particularly with the new writing I’m doing. Sometimes I’d like to be clear I’m referring to a living being but not have to claim gender.

Like Ms., I think it wouldn’t take long to get used to it and it would be worth the trouble, just like going metric would be a good thing for us. That didn’t happen, and who knows when this might.

Anyway, thanks!

By: Irene King

Irene King — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:28:33 +0000

As I mentioned earlier, other languages that share our roots don’t have gender-neutral for *anything,* and each noun is assigned a gender. Go figure.

At least we are able to have gender-neutral descriptions of everything that is actually gender-neutral, except for us, of course. Because we’re not. Although the language leans towards male as the de facto gender, it still makes for an easier read than a forced gender-neutral quasi-language. And it’s still easier than trying to remember whether a pen or a chair is male or female.

By the way, the language change that was suggested in the 70s by (a small portion) of the feminist movement was “ve.” Ve would stand in for He or She. Of course, when it came to possessives, the whole thing crumbled into infighting. It got silly and went away.

By: dorothy

dorothy — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 16:48:19 +0000

It was very difficult following the “gender neutral” words in your articles. It made me feel lost. The intent is a great idea & I wish you luck!!

By: katie

katie — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 07:23:05 +0000

Great article, but I found that by the 4th paragraph, I switched back to regular pronouns in my mind as I read to make it easier to read. And “shrim” sounds too much like “shrimp” which made me chuckle as I read.

By: merylrunion

merylrunion — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 04:31:40 +0000

For these articles I think it does matter what words I use, in that I don’t want to have to decide that Truth is male and Story is female, etc. The language forces drawing a line in the sand that is misleading. As an author, I have long felt limited by needing to disclose gender, and I don’t want to depersonalize the personal by using it etc. because that dehumanized us. This is a true limitation IMO, it doesn’t take all that long to get used to, but the questions is: are people willing to get used to it. It’s looking like they’re not.

Giving up isn’t part of my nature, but regrouping is, so I might explore a plan B here.

By: Irene King

Irene King — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 23:22:05 +0000

In the 1970s, there was an attempt to make gender-neutral language. That endeavor, obviously, was an abysmal failure. Since we already have gender neutral words (it, its, it’s), I don’t see the necessity. In addition, the average person would be averse to making such a change in the language (that has served us well for hundreds of years) for what purpose? Other languages that share our roots (French, Spanish, Italian, etc.) don’t even have gender-neutral for, say, a *chair.*

As far as my reading it, I found it awkward and unappealing. It felt forced and seemed a little too cutesy to take seriously.